Forum - The LayR Lair

Official announcements, and a community for sharing help, tutorials and discussion of Living Memory Software's products.
  1. Living Memory Software
  2. LayR Chat
  3. Monday, 06 March 2017
  4.  Subscribe via email

I want to start a repository for storing LayR presets so that users can upload and download from it.

I'm looking for a space I can use for storage, as soon as it's up and running I'll announce it here, but meanwhile 

use the email address that's given at the bottom of the page here Preset Competition


 

Responses (21)
Living Memory Software Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Ok it's done, you should see a link to the downloads on the right hand side of this page :)

or else you could always click on this line here
  1. more than a month ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 1
Living Memory Software Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Looking forward to it! if people really want a ton of presets this is the only way it will happen. Presets take a lot of time to make and I can and do and will make some presets, especially when I actually get the chance to just sit down and play with LayR. But I have to apply most of my time to development and sadly I cannot afford to hire someone to make me 1000 presets like some other devs, maybe that will change if we can sell a few more units ;) ;)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 2
Bryan Baker Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Wow - new set from Brice uploaded this morning is very impressive and really shows off what can be done with the (relatively) simple synth engine. Well done and thanks for sharing!! :D
  1. more than a month ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 3
crsj Accepted Answer Pending Moderation
Most of the presets crash the app for me when I touch the key after loading from iclouddrive. Will delete/reinstall, just saving off my first tries at own presets ;)
  1. more than a month ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 4
Skip Hunt Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

Why does every post and reply have to be moderated? Seems counter intuitive to building a thriving community. 

Anyway... @Bryan So the new Brice presets are available for download? I looked at the locked preset sharing thread and didn't see any at all. 

I haven't bought LayR yet, but I'm getting close. To be honest, although I knew LayR was likely very special from before launch... I didn't think Andy would get the kinds of sales out of the gate that I bet he was hoping. I figured since he's not very well known, and it's not a cheap app... that his initial sales would likely be a brutal insult... considering the amount of work that obviously went into this. I wanted to make sure he didn't throw in the towel disgusted with the lack of huge interest. 

Now, it appears he's in for the long haul and only fortified to see this through. 

Also, Brice's presets alone (for me at least) are nearly worth the price of admission alone, even if I never design my own patches that are useable. 

So, if I can download these new Brice presets now, I may go ahead and grab LayR now instead of waiting for the update. 

  1. 4 weeks ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 5
Living Memory Software Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

Skip you've been on the fence so long I'm surprised you've not grown into the ivy ;)

Only your first couple of posts are moderated, I think a lot of forums work that way, it's to prevent spamming and trolling.  You should be able to post freely now :)

 

 

  1. 4 weeks ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 6
Skip Hunt Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

Andy, it's actually been my 3rd post that also needed moderation. 

Yes, your app is complex and I wasn't sure if it was going to catch on in such a way that you'd keep developing it. I had my doubts that it'd take off right away because although it's not a terribly expensive app, it's not on the lower end either. With larger companies the buyer can usually count on some updates.. at least for awhile. Unfortunately, with independent developers, you can't be sure. I didn't want to throw away $20 and the time needed to learn your app... if it was going to be abandoned. That happens a lot. 

Most of the users I've seen who are pimping your app, also appear to be beta testers. I wanted to see if other's also bought the app and that if there were enough app purchases that you'd feel inspired to keep moving the app forward. 

If LayR was an easy app and pocket change, I wouldn't have bothered to be on the fence. But, from the looks of the interface it's going to take some time to learn how to get the best out of it. It appears there's a learning curve involved that might be steep for some of us. So, it's not so much about the $20 price of the app, but more about whether to invest the time to learn an app that may or may not be supported 6 months from now.

I't looking to me like you're committed and the app appears to be getting even better. The newer samples I'm seeing/hearing are also much better, or at least my inline with my taste. I'm speaking of the RedSky and Brice ones. The earlier demos were fine, but weren't my personal taste. These new ones are. Actually, the new presets are good enough that I feel like I can get plenty of good use out of your app now, even if I never bother with trying trying to make my own patches. The RedSky and Brice collections are enough value that the custom possibilities are just icing on the cake. :)


  1. 4 weeks ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 7
Bryan Baker Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

Skip - Pimping a bit, here, but I'm certainly not doing it for any royalties.  I'm just so impressed with LayR, that I'm compelled to support it with high compliments.  Regarding its complexity, I would compare it to a few other synths that I paid the same price for (Egoist, iMS-20, Z3TA+, Dhalang MG) and I must say it's a LOT simpler to work with than any of those.  Also, Wolfgang Palm's Phonem, WaveMapper and WaveGenerator - OMG those have a HUGE learning curve.

With LayR, once you learn the one screen of controls (which are typical of almost any subtractive synth), you're good to go, adding as many layers as you want to build really massive sounds.  And it's also a great educational tool to learn what's going on in subtractive synths, either starting from the default preset and tweaking on your own or dissecting any of the built-in presets (hint - use the solo feature to peer into individual layers and twiddle the dials).  The most complicated thing IMHO is the arpegiattor which I still haven't quite got my head around.

Within the synth itself, once you learn how to map the modulators (LFOs and envelopes) to the oscillators and filters that's when it really gets fun!  The LFOs can range from extremely long wavelengths all the way to very high in the audio range and this allows for typical tremolo, vibrato, etc effects to wild frequency, phase, pulse width and filter modulations so you can do things many FM synths are built for (e.g. bells).  And the envelopes can have very long attack, decay and release times (with looping) to build very nice, evolving drones.

There have been some complaints that LayR doesn't work as an Audio Unit so you can't have multiple instances of the app running in AU-supporting DAWs (like Cubasis, AUM, etc) like you can with, for example, Poison-202, but within the app itself, you can have multiple synths which can be independent or dependent (using the control linking feature - which no AU synths do AFAIK).  So there's a bit of a trade-off - multiple instances of a synth app inside a DAW or LayR standalone.  Of course you can always use one instance of LayR inside your DAW if you like!

I'm not going to encourage you to jump the fence, but if you do I'm sure you will find it well worth the cost once you invest a couple of hours with it.

Cheers!

 

  1. 4 weeks ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 8
Skip Hunt Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

Bryan, thanks!

I've got Dhalang MG and paid the same for it. I think Dhalang is an incredible, genius-level app that people seem to find perplexing and intimidating. The learning curve was a little steep at first, but at some point it all clicked for me and everything fell into place. I still don't know Dhalang 100% but i think I've nailed about 90% of it. 

I'll likely grab it very soon. I just know that once I buy it, I'll get obsessed with learning it, so I'm waiting for a bit of extra time. I almost bought it last night but I didn't want to end up not getting to sleep until after 3AM. ;)

  1. 4 weeks ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 9
Bryan Baker Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

Skip - thanks for your info on Dhalang.  I worked with it for a few hours when I first got it then set it aside.  I went back to it a couple of weeks ago and had the same sense of shock and awe.  It's great to hear that you feel you've tackled it and I'm now encouraged to pick it up again and this time I'll be more persistent.  Hope you don't mind if I ping you here if I run into any questions - I don't believe there is a Dhalang forum or much in the way of a user community to reach out to.  I've watched the "tutorials" on the developer website, but since they are just a few captioned videos I find them a little hard to follow.  Also, there isn't much in the way of documentation other than the Quicksheet PDF which is pretty succinct.  I just realized while looking for in-app documentation that you have kudos on the "about" page for "high-res logo vectorization and general advocacy".  Any chance you could write up a user manual?  ;-)

  1. 4 weeks ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 10
Skip Hunt Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

Bryan, not likely on the user manual. ;) I can tell you that if you just start VERY simple first it'll help. It can start to look way more complicated than it really is, if you get too many things going on at once.

I went though each video one-by-one. I'd watch the video and hit the pause button while emulating what's on screen. Then, I try to do what I learned on my own from that first video. Then, I'd watch the video again without pausing it (now that I had a better idea of what's what). Then, I'd try to reinforce what I'd just learned by doing it on my own again. I'd do that same thing for each of the videos. It took awhile, but somewhere in the middle the syntax, language and logic of the app started making sense. When that hits you, you'll be like, "That's it? I was making this way more complicated than it needed to be." 

After you've tried to make a few VERY simple compositions, then go to the settings page and hit the dice icon to randomize all the settings. Hit play and browse through the app to see what everything is doing. That's of great use too. 

Mitch, the Audio Dabbler guy who also did a couple videos for LayR, has been given a code and is supposed to be making some demo videos as well. Those might be easier to follow and understand than the ones the developer did. 

So, since this is a site/forum devoted to LayR discussion, if you want to discuss later... maybe ask on one of the Dhalang MG threads on the AB site since it's a bit more general over there? You can tag me over there and if I know the answer I'll be happy to help. There are a couple other users over there who also know Dhalang fairly well now too.

  1. 4 weeks ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 11
Bryan Baker Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

Got it - thanks, Skip!

  1. 4 weeks ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 12
Skip Hunt Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

First off, although I don't have a clue how to use this yet... I can already tell this is an impressive piece of software. I'm baffled as to how many of the presets sounds were coaxed out of this thing. Amazing!

Quick question...

Brice sent me a folder of new presets and I moved those into my iCloud, but I could only import them one by one. I couldn't import an entire folder. I also can't move his folder into the LayR folder that was automatically created on my iCloud drive. I realize I can do this via iTunes, but I'd like to be able to do this without having to use iTunes. 

Also, when you enable import, it says that while it's enabled other presets will be appended or added to the current "Performance". Unless I don't fully understand what that means, I can get it to add anything more to what I've already got loaded. If I select a different preset, it just changes to that preset, it doesn't append or add to anything. Advice?

Lastly, the presets that Brice and RedSky have created are incredible. But I don't have a clue what's going on to create the sophisticated sounds evolving out of these. I know there are in-app help screens to show labels on the controls, but is there a full-on manual somewhere?

  1. 3 weeks ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 13
Living Memory Software Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

Sadly my original reply to these questions unintentionally caused offence and bad feeling, perhaps a clash of volatile personalities: I have removed the posts in order to keep this thread on topic, and in the interest of keeping the atmosphere friendly, let's take deep breaths and try again... 

 

PDF Manual:

Sorry but there is no PDF manual at this time, it looks unlikely at this stage. But I am trying to make some videos of which there are a few on our youtube channel.

 

Preset Import:

There are only 2 methods to import presets in v1.0.3.

1: The iTunes method: This is the bulk import method but it might require the user to renumber the preset files.

2: iCloud Drive: which lets you import presets individually. You must save them to a bank and program slot to store them permanently.

There is a video on the youtube channel that explains both these methods.

 

Import button in the load view

This is not explained in the internal help and is an oversight.

Basically it is not for importing preset files but instead it is used to enable a mode that lets you append another performance to the current performance.

Both performances must already be stored in bank/program slots for it to work.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  1. 3 weeks ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 14
Bryan Baker Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

Andy - A couple of comments if I may.

Regarding iCloud, there may be a misconception by some that this is a dynamic file repository similar to how iOS photos are automagically uploaded and shared across your all devices whenever you're connected to wifi.  It helps me to think of it as a backup service like iCloud Drive where you can safely store your files in case your device gets lost, bricked, or you need to delete the app for whatever reason.  It is a bit of an extra hassle if you want to replicate your files across devices since you have to manually upload and download them but that's just the way it works.  LayR presets - and it helps to re-emphasize that there are two kinds (Performances and Instruments) - are 'normally' saved to your device's file structure using the little "Open In" icon or loaded into the app using the similar icon with the arrow pointing down.  The cloud icon on the Save and Load screens do the same thing, but rather than storing/loading locally to the device they store/load them from iCloud.  Perhaps obvious to some, but likewise not so obvious to others.

Secondly, I've noticed some confusion regarding performances and instruments.  Both of these can be saved and loaded as a "Preset".  The fundamental building block, or course, is a single synth "layer", but ironically, you can't store a layer as a standalone preset!  An Instrument is made up of one or more layers and a Performance is made up of one or more instruments.  If you start by opening a Performance preset, it will replace all the instruments you may currently have open with those that make up the performance.  You can then add more instruments using the little plus sign and either create one from scratch or load one of the Instrument presets.  If you create an instrument from scratch (or modify an existing one), you may want to save it as a new Instrument preset.  If you've created or modified a performance, you probably want to save it as a new Performance preset.  Saving the Performance preset doesn't replace the instruments in the instrument preset library - you must do this separately.  That is, instruments in the library are not dynamically connected to changes made in a Performance.  Again, perhaps obvious to some, but clearly others have been confused by this.

I had never noticed the "Import..." option on the Load Performance page, but now that you've explained it, I see some great power in this feature.  Perhaps you should change the annotation to "Append..." to make it a little more clear.  Also, please consider adding a page (or two) to the built-in docs to explain the preset concepts and elaborate on the Load and Save screens - something for a future release, of course.

These are fundamental input/output nuances of the app that are certainly very clear to you as the developer, but I recall going through a bit of a learning curve myself by trial-and-error to get my mind around them.  The tutorial videos you made did help a lot and I would encourage everyone to have a look at them.  As Skip suggested to me regarding Dhalang MG, I'm going through the videos for that app and they are also helping me get more familiar with how that one works.

My biggest pet peeve - and I realize this is very much wishful thinking, but why isn't there an iOS "Preset Standard" that would allow us to share presets universally across all synth apps?   [rhetorical question and cynicism off]   ;-)

Regards,

-- Bryan

  1. 3 weeks ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 15
Bryan Baker Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

Andy - I forgot to mention, but it might be fairly simple to copy the built-in help pages to a PDF and make this available for download on the Layr Support page.  This might help satisfy those who would like to have a separate manual that can be referred to either on paper or from a separate device/computer while immersed in the app.  I've seen other apps that have done this so it certainly wouldn't be unusual.

  1. 3 weeks ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 16
Living Memory Software Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

Bryan - Some good points about iCloud Drive. I actually find it very useful for moving small things between apps.

It has many "cons" but its "pros" are the fact that it's free, you don't need a special account and it's unlikely to be deprecated or abandoned any time soon.

I wish Apple would make it more user friendly though.

Change "Import" to "Append" ... yes, I think I will.

Did you know you can copy and paste entire layers between instruments by using the clipboard icon in the layer edit view?

Also you can copy sections of a layer. ie. a filter or an envelope between layers by holding on the background.

You can also copy the envelopes between each other.

Until now I haven't given much credence to a file format for a layer,  mainly because it get complicated by the fact layers can be horizontally linked within an instrument. But I guess it could be useful so that's one for a future update too maybe!.

Reformatting the help pages into a PDF is a couple of days work probably, nothing like the weeks it would take to write a good manual, so maybe that can happen too. There's a lot of other stuff in the pipe at the moment also.

 

  1. 3 weeks ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 17
Skip Hunt Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

Andy, honestly... I already knew about your "personality" and that for some reason you seem to have issues sounding defensive and snarky with the most benign of questions. I figured maybe you had such a "volatile" disposition toward my valid and polite questions because I hadn't actually purchased your app yet and you couldn't be bothered. I wasn't sure, but I'd hoped you'd warm up a bit after I'd purchased your app. For chrissakes, I freakin' complimented your brilliant app in my post! I was only asking for clarity on the import icloud stuff, and so that I wouldn't have to trouble you for your precious time I asked if there was a manual. Nothing more. I didn't deserve the attitude you slung at me. I really don't understand why you chose to go all snarky, dismissive, and defensive with such trivial questions. 

After your offensive post that you've chosen to delete (wise move) I was going to use the app enough to at least have enough experience with it to give a no-holds-barred honest review for the App Store and various blog/forum sites regarding LayR's learning curve, access to tech support and/or a proper manual, it's sound, etc. and then request a refund from the App Store. I may still do that. But, I have another question if you could be so kind. I have managed to figure out how to get some movement in the sounds in LayR by basically taking the presets by RedSky and Brice, and zeroing out each parameter while the preset/performance is playing and fed by some external midi... and hearing what each parameter does. Sort of reverse engineering, since there aren't any substantial demo videos that go into any depth, and no manual. I've also managed to create a couple of my own performance presets, save and recall them without issue. 

Look, I bought your app on it's own merits. It doesn't matter to me whether you're courteous and professional to users like myself or not. All I care about is effectively and creatively using the $20 app I just bought. The presets thus far, and the cinematic Brice pack that's upcoming, are almost enough to make the purchase worthwhile, but not quite. I know there are more Brice presets coming in the next update. Are there many more of similar caliber coming in the next update as well? I'm only asking because I'm trying to decide if LayR has enough value in just the presets alone to keep it instead of getting a refund, even if I never figure out how to use it's cryptic interface. I bought your app based on what RedSky told me about the app privately, as well as Brice. Also, due to the presets by RedSky and Brice. Nothing to do with your attitude towards new users at all. I hope RedSky and Brice are getting some kind of compensation for their kind and generous efforts to promote your app.

  1. 2 weeks ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 18
Living Memory Software Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

Brice's Cinematic presets plus a few more will be in v1.0.4 in a week or two.

 

  1. 2 weeks ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 19
Skip Hunt Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

Hello, 

I figured out the import/append thing... by saving performances into a bank as instructed, then importing/appending them from there. 

Once I've added some performances to a "Bank", how do I delete them from the bank? 

  1. 2 weeks ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 20
Living Memory Software Accepted Answer Pending Moderation

There's no deleting from bank slots, you  just overwrite them. Or if you  prefer to delete you can drag the folder out of iTunes delete items, and drag it back again.

Also fyi. You can rename banks with long taps on the bank name  in the save views.

  1. 2 weeks ago
  2. LayR Chat
  3. # 21


There are no replies made for this post yet.
However, you are not allowed to reply to this post.